While awaiting a reply from the FireCareers staff, kindly allow me to offer this *personal* suggestion:

Your 342 words above - even after considerable editing three hours following your initial post, indicate that you've got a lot of ground yet to cover. Without saying anything more, I'll very politely suggest that you seek the intense personal career counseling of a dedicated Firefighter or Fire Officer who can help you identify your specific needs and develop a clear path towards success.

Best Wishes,

Brian
Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:31 PM

Though I can have no direct professional involvement with those who join our agency until they have completed probation - and will clearly state that I have no expertise or official capacity in employee relations (and know nothing of and therefore cannot comment on your particular circumstances), I do have a purely personal interest in seeing that anyone who desires a Firefighter career is given every available benefit and measure of support in the pursuit of their dreams. Sometimes that pursuit takes a seemingly convoluted path. That path however, is made easier when one purges oneself of vitriol, and actively seeks the counsel of those Fire Service career professionals I earlier mentioned. Please let us know how you do, as your story is not entirely uncommon, and your ultimate success may bolster the many others who face such challenge.

Best Wishes,

Brian

Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!
This message was edited by lafdpso on 10-27-04 @ 11:14 PM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:31 PM

Hopefully this matter can be put behind you and you can get another chance to turn the page.

When i heard about your class and what happened i was not suprised with the choice of the departments actions for termination.

The rules are the rules no matter what.

I do wish you luck in your future fire service endevours.

Bootskee

Pain is your friend, it lets you know your still alive
This message was edited by TheBootskee on 11-2-04 @ 7:58 PM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:32 PM

Just a little advice, i would take the "names" who you make reference to out of your previous post. There are several members (captains,cheifs,firefighters) who frequent this board from our department.

Bootskee
Pain is your friend, it lets you know your still alive

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:33 PM

Integrity is how you do your job when no one is looking!

Good luck bro!
"Attitude is everything!"

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:35 PM

There is the "Official" reason why you were terminated and then there could be the "unofficial" reason(s) you got the boot which will not be found on any paperwork.
It could possibly be you said something, or did something that upset someone in authority. While not breaking any rules, policy or procedure, you may have thought you were speaking to someone in a private setting but what you said was heard, or passed on by someone you did not know was listening. You may have "rubbed" someone the wrong way and the "official" termination was the payback. Someone was keeping score on you all along and the ladder spots on the ground was the "excuse" to send you down the steps to the basement and out the side doors. How do I know all this?
I was "there" with that captain on the grinder one day during ladder drills. While I was speaking with that captain, who was supervising recruits during ladder drills, that captain gave corrective instuction to a recruit about foot placement. It seems that the recuit was too close to graduation from the academy to be making the same basic mistakes expected of recruits in their first few weeks of training. What the recruit said stunned me and, if I had any authority, I would have booted that recruit on the spot by yanking his collar and sending him down to clear out his locker.
"Sir/Maam, yes Sir/Maam" was the sing-songy smart-assed-bad-attitude reply from the recruit. I asked the captain if she had heard the same cheesy reply. That captain shook their head yes, and then admonished the recruit with a warning and words to the effect of "You can still be dropped from this academy." To my amazement, the recruit REPEATED that same bad-attitude reply. It was all I could do to not get in that recruit's face. That captain then told me that the bad attitude recruit was setting himself up for a hard fall and that, when the time comes for that recruit to need a break, he was certainly not going to get it. Line firefighters, much less fire fighter recruits do NOT address captains that way. I am sure you have heard of "disrepect". Well, this was it. That recruit had made a conscious decison to be a knucklehead to that captain.
In the fire service, and especially while in training, recruits/probies/rookies are indeed "taken care of." As to just how those recruits are "taken care of" has a lot to do with their attitude.
While you are between a rock and a hard place at this time in your career, there are those out there who understand what happened to you. There are also those who will only see you as a person who got the boot from the academy and never give you a second thought. You are the one who has to find those who will give you that second thought. Make sure, when asked, that you tell the whole truth about what happened to you.

Best wishes
This message was edited by tomdeltazulu on 10-29-04 @ 9:17 AM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:32 PM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:33 PM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:34 PM

Im bailing out of this post too since it just blew up!
This message was edited by growler on 12-3-04 @ 11:47 AM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:34 PM

NoPain126 wrote:

I would like to know if this case will disqualify me in getting hired to any fire service?

With 30,310 Fire Departments in the USA alone, there is really no way for any of us to generalize the diverse decision-making that may take place in all of those agencies. If nothing else, please remember: neither the world nor its Fire Service revolves around any one Fire Department!

You sound like a personal career counselor thats dedicated to helping future firefighters. So I need your help

Thank you for the rousing compliment. I am honored when anyone in or pursuing a Fire Service career asks for assistance, as seeking help is the hardest thing for any of us to do. That you are actively seeking personal support and guidance at this difficult time speaks loudly of where you are headed.

Kindly remember that while I may mention the LAFD as reference or by inference, my help in this forum is truly meant to be generic in regards to agency or applicant (at least I hope you all see it that way). The good news is that my opinion is free. The bad news is that it isn't always applicable. :)

While I may be well-known in "crisis management" circles, please know that such perceived expertise does not extend to employee relations issues. I am also not in any formal way involved in Fire Department recruitment, testing, training, counseling or employee relations. Because I can also readily be seen as a member of Fire Department Administration (which is where my name appears in the employee roster), I cannot ethically counsel a plaintiff on or off-duty when our agency may be a defendant. I hope you understand.

Similarly, my suggestion to find a Fire Officer who can offer personal guidance and be a mentor would specifically preclude me, as I am the rank-wise at very bottom of our profession.

The best advice I have to offer for anyone in NoPain126's circumstance: steer clear of vitriol, watch your steps very carefully and seeking expert *in-person* guidance from veteran Fire Officer(s) remains.

Possibly one of the many active or retired Officers who lurk in this forum would be willing to serve as a mentor for him or others who are facing unique circumstances.

Best Wishes to any and all who may be facing difficult circumstances.

Brian

Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!
This message was edited by lafdpso on 10-31-04 @ 2:11 PM

I can not speak for LA City Fire on this issue, but, I was a peer instructor in our academy so I have had the opportunity to see how an academy operates from both ends. Based upon my experience peer instructing I cant imagine the training Captains firing a recruit for something like that if that recruit hadnt set himself up for failure from the begining. What i learned as a peer instructor is that attitude is 90% of making it through the academy. If you have a good attitude most Captains feel they can shape you into being a good firefighter. On the other hand, if you have a bad attitude or you come across disrespectfully, they are going to be searching for something to get you on since typically recruits dont get fired for attitude alone. Like I said I could be wrong, but if I were a betting man I would say that you cheating on your ladder spots was not why you got fired. It was your attitude that got you fired. Best of luck to you in the future and I hope you learned something from the experience.

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:34 PM

NOPAIN....

I dont know you, I dont blame you...on any of this. I would however suggest that when speaking of this incident you dont refer to any of your instructors as brown nosers. I would also suggest that you dont speak negatively of the LAFD. They were afterall the department that gave you THE CHANCE!!!Im not critisizing you, however, I have found that there are many times that people are terminated and very very few where they had nothing to do with it, or it was the entire class, or they needed to make an example.
Again...not blaming you...I think its great you admitted your part. I really hope it all works out. You do need to talk to the pros though. There is always another way, another department, but there is also time....and it make take a bit of that.....keep the faith bro!
Be......OUT-standing!

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:35 PM

YOU have got to be kidding me! YOU dont belive that the drill instructor is worthy?!?! Who the HE** are you? YOU dont believe that your admin division handled this correctly?!?! Again....WHO the he** are YOU. YOU dont like the way admin handled it? Get used to that buddy. YOU all kept the IMMr's and kiss butts and complainers in line...Well I guess your at the head of that line now fella. Did we all not get the memo that you are Gods gift to the fire service, that YOU are the all wise, all knowing candidate that was kicked out of an academy and FIRED by his department. Lets get real here.....YOU got fired for what YOU freely admit YOU did. I love those who always want to blame others for their mistakes. You need to take some stock in yourself and decide what YOU are going to do and how YOU are going to change your attitude.Come to my department! We will show YOU exactly what we think of YOU!

If you burn it....we will come!!!!
This message was edited by olskoolsffd on 12-2-04 @ 12:22 PM

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This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:31 PM

OK Pup....

OLD SCHOOL is 26 years on with SAN FRANCISCO FIRE DEPARTMENT. Fourth generation here, and two before that in FDNY. Do I think what I said makes you feel bad. No of course not. Your still too d*mn prideful to feel bad. You still think you own the whole d*mn world even though youve been fired. You want old school, here I am, and if you had been on my rig or in my tower I would have "chewed" it out of you so long ago that this conversation would not even have to happen. You come see me anytime pup...Ill be waitin....might wanna bring all your academy pals who "support" you and your cheating ways....They may need to hold you up when your knees buckle!
If you burn it....we will come!!!!

This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:23 PM

You can call me gramps, you can say I dont speak in a mature fashion, but at the end of the day PUP....Ive been on the job 26 years. Fighting fire ALL 26, and never onced been even accused of cheating or theft...let alone been fired for it. Just remember this whole conversation started because you felt the need to belittle your training officer...who by the way, still works for the LAFD, and your ADMIN section, which still runs the LAFD. You were just told you needed to learn some respect, because as of right now, your just a NOBODY in the fire service. Your not even a wanna be...your a used to be! So yea pup, Ill put my 26 years of experience up against your termination any day!
If you burn it....we will come!!!!

Check Your Private message
Class 03-02
This message was edited by NOPAIN126 on 12-2-04 @ 8:24 PM

Wow guys, I think enough has been said in this matter. If you want to say more.......Take it outside! A serious matter. But I think weve said all we can say.
Be......OUT-standing!

Mr. NOPAIN,
We're sure you are probabley a good guy who made a mistake and is now paying a huge price for it, but if we could give you 1 piece of advice that has been touched on but perhaps needs to be stated again but this time loud and clear :
The fire service, although very large in numbers when it comes to membership, is really a very small community when it comes down to it. It isn't hard for someone working for Dept. A to call someone on Dept. T to find out about someone and if someone on Dept. T doesn't have the info, chances are really good that he can make 1 phone call and get the info. With that in mind, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take more than an hour for someone to make some phone calls to find out who you are. I'm not, and I repeat, I'm not saying this as a threat, its the truth [ it has been proven on here a few months back with another disgruntled poster who is no longer gainfully employeed by a great Southland fire department ] Now if its that easy to find that out, how long do you think it would take for your name to get out among the white shirts who do the hiring in the Southland area [ and the rest of the state as well ]?
Although you came on here to get some advice, it appears as if you have got caught up in some good old fashion bickering with another poster on here. Normally I wouldn't think twice about something like this and actually enjoy it, BUT the more you do this the more you really draw negative attention to yourself, which at this time you really don't need anymore of.
As anyone who has spent any substantial amount of time in the firehouse knows, theres 3 sides to every story, and who knows what actually went on with your situation and I personally don't even care, but the fact of the matter is that its done and all the self promotion you are posting now about being well liked , the strongest, being the team leader for 17 weeks really holds no water right now in regards to your situation.
The best thing you could possibley do [ at least as far as posting on this thread goes ] is to just fade off into the sunset and let this one die [ and hope that none of LAcityFD training staff see's this thread, or at least the one person who you have singled out ]. The one person who you singled out might just be the person who answers the phone on the day a background investigator calls in regards to your employment at LAcityFD.
The reality of it is, believe it or not, this could be very crucial in regards to your future as a firefighter.
We wish you the best of luck,
AHE
American Health Education...For all your fire and emergency medical service needs.

I once took a class about the society of the United States of America in today's times. I learned a great deal through my instructor. I will never forget the words he said, which I feel pertain to the younger generations.

"Today's society is a blameless society, nobody takes blame but always places it on someone or something else. Ya you can admitt to the accusations but you will some way some how find a reason to point a finger. I challenge everyone in this class today to take the punishment and let it be because there are just more problems when you start pointing fingers."
M. Lampman Permian High School
I just wish that it was that easy, but you know, it really is. Just shut you mouth take a big gulp of the pride you have and let the issue go before anymore pride is lost.
Oh ya, Mr. Nopain, I am also a young firefighter who has busted his behind. I take serious offense to the disrespect that you did show to olskoolsffd. You make the younger generation look bad. Please for our sake, the younger generation that is, just shut up. Please. No disrespect intended, but you should pick your battles man. I'm not in your shoes but I tell you what I would never admit to being terminated from LA unless it was while trying to get another job. Oh yea, one more thing, you really showed your maturity as a cadet and as a person when you disrespected someone who you may have to talk to someday.
Another quote
"Be carefull, the toes you step on today WILL be conected to the A** you kiss tomorrow"
My mother (Trust me this is as true as it gets brother.)

NoPain 126:

I happened to have missed the fireworks, but given the replies, I believe there was some manner of vitriol exchanged. Please let me get down to basics. I want you to read and acknowledge this.

YOUR MENTAL, PHYSICAL AND SOCIAL WELLNESS ARE AT STAKE. YOU MAY BE ALIVE, BUT YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY DYING FROM THIS CANCER THAT IS TAKING HOLD OF YOU.

Please turn the corner. To hell with the Fire Service, the entirety of your life and your future is at stake.

I am NOT saying what has happened is your fault, but let's be frank: It is and must remain your problem to deal with. It isn't going to be easy - but with each day that passes, the task will become vastly more difficult. You need to address this ASAP.

The seeds that are taking root within you must be dug up and cast to the wind. You - and only you can do that. I can sense the anger and disappointment you are feeling - and will acknowledge that many reading this message would be consumed with identical feelings.

Hopefully however, they would find a time to refresh, regroup, rethink and re-apply themselves. As long as this anger burns inside you (even a flicker), you are not ready to pursue life much less the Fire Service.

If you are still living in Los Angeles, please call (800)339-6993 or (800)854-7771 and ask the counselor about where you can drop in to talk with a professional therapist at little or no cost. You need to talk to somebody my friend, and there ain't nothin' but good that can come from it. Let them be the (figurative please!) punching bag, before you bl*w up - cave in - or succumb to the many opportunistic illnesses that seem to grow within those who are full of frustration. *After* talking to them, please think of taking a sabbatical, and then working hard at finding that Fire Officer/mentor I was speaking of earlier.

While I imagine this post could elicit a thousand angry words, please ask yourself first and foremost why the heck I'm replying. Do you know why? Because you are in need, because you are salvageable, and because it's the right thing to do.

In closing, I'd like you to do _three_ things:

One: Take a two week break from this forum and all things firematic.

Two: Return to this forum in two weeks time (mark your calendar!) and offer a formal apology to those you have offended. It is your responsibility as a gentleman to do so without rationalization or excuses.

Three: Don't change your Forum ID. Be enough of a man to show us how you can grow from adversity. Be proud of what you do and say - all of it! Life has neither a rewind nor an erase button. Start living your life like it matters.

Best Wishes - and I d*mn well mean that!

Brian

Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!
This message was edited by lafdpso on 12-2-04 @ 9:31 PM

I want to apologize to everyone that I have spoke to that went out of line. I realized that becoming a firefighter wasn't meant to be. I also want to thank you personally because you were the 1st one to respond and you did gave me good advice as a counselor and as a mentor. I will not forget that. I also want to thank everyone that responded in here. I will have to sit down and look at what I have to do and move on.
Thank you

NOPAIN...Id like permission to Im you. Ive got a story for you that may help
Be......OUT-standing!

Check P.M.

Great advice brian....we need to help him...and NOPAIN...Ill be talkin to ya
Be......OUT-standing!

After reading the last few postings and getting the totality of this situation, I must apologize to NOPAIN and the room for some of my comments, Good Luck Pup
If you burn it....we will come!!!!

No Pain,
It looks like I missed the whole shebang of the conversation.
Your posts have been deleted but I have a feeling that I may
know a little about how you felt after being let go. You see, I
was let go several years ago for what truly was an HR error.
That was pretty hard to swallow!!
Then, recently, I was released again and this time it was my
fault. It has taken me a while to gather myself. There was a
part of me that felt like a deserved a job so much!! Why has
life dealt me such a bl*w?? What went wrong?? Why me??
I recently had another interview and of course my release came
up. My reply was kind of spur of the moment but from the
heart. It went something like this.......
I believe part of me was just really excited about finally
making it ( getting hired... again) and part of me kind of forgot
that there are a lot of other people scratching and clawing to
get where we have been. In the end, I realized that momentary
perception is a reality and that I did not put anywhere near my
best foot forward. Part of me is ashamed that I did not
realize this before hand but then I have the chance to turn this
around if I choose. You do as well.
Good luck from someone who knows a little about how you feel!

Start of a new yr And start of a new begining

Amen my friend, Amen.

Please know that many stand here to assist you in the promising opportunities that lie ahead.

Brian
Please no e-mail. Public replies only. Thank you!

Failure is the opportunity to begin again, more intelligently.......
Henry Ford

Failures are to be expected along the way to sucess....
Me

Best wishes Nopain. If you need me, you know how to get in touch with me.
This message was edited by tomdeltazulu on 1-22-05 @ 2:18 PM